‘I don’t want to scare you. But I can very clearly see you dying nobly, one way or another, for some highly unworthy cause. If I write down something for you, will you read it carefully? And keep it? It was written by a psychoanalyst named Wilhelm Stekel. Here’s what he said: “The mark of the immature man is that wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.”‘ - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye : 195
8 June, 2007
Mr Antolini’s speech, part II
Posted by Nathan Hobby under Salinger - J.D., The catcher in the rye, maturity, meaning of life[14] Comments
8 February, 2008 at 7:44 am
This book was very good! I was suprised to find out how that holden was molested. I think that is why Jane and Holden were close they both shared the fact that they were both molested. I also think that every name in the book had a meaning Holden Caulfield He is holdin on to the field and Caul is the piece of skin remained from the sack at birth. Stradalater is well stradle and later ya ha ha. But i think that the red hat was a way for holden to fit in to everyone else in the family because they all had red hair. Well i could go on and on but i will stop reply back if you want to know anything
10 March, 2008 at 12:32 pm
When you say that Holden was molested are you referring to when he wakes up to Mr. Antolini petting his head? Are there other names in the book that have meaning? Does Mr Antolini mean anything? You cut yourself short and say you “could go on.” Please do. I am interested to hear your thoughts.
29 May, 2008 at 1:48 am
Mr. Antolini wanted to sex him.
29 May, 2008 at 1:52 am
and Holden later thinking back and wondering if he made the wrong assumption about Mr. Antolini is silly. Even if Mr. A didn’t mean for it to be sexual, it’s creepy to wake up to someone touching you and not right, especially if you are supposed to be a formal figure in someone’s life (teacher in this case). I think, though, that Holden may be gay and that his interest in girls is curiousity. He’s horny cuz he has a you-know-what and he wants some action but I think he’s gay and that’s why he is so weird about gay people and worried about being gay. Holden=gay. Mr. Antolini=pervert.
end of story.
22 June, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I kind of agree with what you say, he might be gay because it seems that whenever he is attracted to a women, it’s only in a friendly way or as you say curiosity. But above all he’s just a young teenager looking for an identity and trying to reject society for it’s superficiality and lack of sincerity. Which is also why he is so keen on children, especially his younger sister Phoebe, ad hates perverts because they’ve already crossed a certain edge and they are trying to violate children’s innocence and honesty.
11 July, 2008 at 9:44 pm
so what does “The mark of the immature man is that wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one mean?”
6 March, 2009 at 5:10 am
it means don’t die
14 March, 2009 at 1:03 am
to 6, i think it means that, though you may think its heroic, taking your life for something you believe in achieves nothing, and shows you have much to learn about the world, but living humbly for your cause – doing what is in you power to help it, not going over the top about it, and without trying to gain credit for your actions is actually the most mature and sensible thing to do.
in general, i actually don’t think mr A is a pervert, thought my english teacher thinks i am nieve for it. Holden appreciates that mr A did many kind thing, for example, trying to save the boy James Castle, checking his pulse, and carrying his corpse to the hospital. He accnolages that he is intelligent and witty, and has helped him at many points. Should all this be forgotten? Over the long period of time thay have know each other, he has not made any pervated action, why should the long list of reasons he chould be respected be cancled out by one action, taken the wrong way by a 17 year old boy, who has barely woken up?
10 April, 2009 at 12:32 am
this book blows
15 May, 2009 at 8:44 am
Some or you are so ignorant of this book and its meaning. Holden is not gay. He is a sensitive teenage boy who is confused about his sexuality because “men” aren’t affectionate in our society and need to maintain their masculinity. And Mr. Antolini is not a perve and did not molest Holden! Mr. Antolini was once like Holden, confused about sexuality and childhood and adulthood, but he grew up realizing the truth. He sees himself in Holden and wants to comfort him because he knew he once needed comfort. Holden is just freaked out because he does not like to express his emotions to others. Man I could go on forever but I feel like my knowledge is going to waste. It should be explained to people who aren’t so judgemental.
16 June, 2009 at 11:36 am
Holden at one point said that he was afraid of homosexuals because he was afraid he would become one.
Holdens gay. No doubt.
16 June, 2009 at 11:37 am
Antolinis not a perv. He just gets affectionate when drunk.
10 August, 2009 at 1:40 am
It is possible Holden is gay but there is no certainty to that. Unfortunately in literary analysis it has become all to convenient a crutch to say that a man’s alienation and confusion is a result of latent homosexuality. Sexual confusion, particularly for a teenager is common. Furthermore, Holden is disillusioned about nearly everything in life. Sex and relationships are a part of his life and he doesn’t understand why there has to be a “game” between people, even though he certainly plays his role.
As for whether Mr. A’s actions constitute molestation, it remains ambiguous. Remember, Mr. A was drunk and may have just reached out and touched Holden out of drunken affection (think Superbad). There may have been malevolent intent – we don’t know. We do know that Holden has been in uncomfortably inappropriate situations like these before and he’s had to navigate for himself a way out of it. His primary reaction is fear and needs to hightail it out of there. This isn’t the 21st century – it’s 1950 (or ‘51) and nobody discussed this issue publicly. There are no easy answers and it frustrates Holden because he desperately needs and wants someone to tell him what to do.
27 August, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Holden is not gay. Mr.A is a perv! The author makes Mr. A’s actions so deliberately creepy one can not mistake his intentions. Holden’s descriptions of sex are not homosexual but merely show his distain for all that is adult. He only shows true affection for children. To Holden all adults have been corrupted by the adult world be it pride, money, religion or in many instances sex. There is no latent homosexuality in Holden’s speech, just a distrust for all adults. This protagonist is obsessed with the innocence of a child and the hatred for those that try to take that innocence, hence the catcher in the rye!!